long Tall Sally
Seasoned Member
an I did not see any question? you totaly missed it on your answer so ask again?
Got rid of my Mag Ride Shocks!
- Thread starter randingo8
- Start date
IAN
Seasoned Member
My question at the paragraph 4
sally...... Post number#154 paragraph 4 of this thread.
IAN
sally...... Post number#154 paragraph 4 of this thread.
IAN
long Tall Sally
Seasoned Member
you are only partially right .I am not going to try to explain to someone that does not know basics what the rear springs do. In fact a stiff sprung rear will cause you to loose traction in ice and snow not improve. That's why suvs and pickups without 4wd that are sprung stiff in the rear slid off the road and loose control in the ice and snow. just look at any video and count the number off the road.
Ok I happen to be on hold about some vinatge shocks for a Porsche 917 in my shop with Bilstein and asked them to clear up this b6 and b8 choice. Its very simple b6 for the "base" corvettes are sprung lighter for regular driving. B8 are stiffer . Overall all the measurements and travel are the same. The difference is the internal valving. they have done quite a few xlrs . Thye only put the b8 o nthe car. they only off er thr b8 for the zo6 . he said ride and chassis flex etc are almost identical between the xlr and the z06. The stiffer rate vs the little extra weight on the xlr makes it a perfect match per his words. Where he said ian read incorrectly that the shocks lower the car is because they make b8 for tons of cars. Most except for the corvette are not shocks but struts with a spring perch . That perch is lower on the tube and thus will in fact lower the cars. Hondas, bmw and nissans are made that way. the corvette and xlr are not , so the shocks work with a lowered car or stock height car but do no lower the car.
I am thru with this thread. If someone is interested you know how to contact me direct and if you have questions I will answer them or direct you to the engineer at Bilstein to confirm what I stated. He said he would love to be able to recommend their shocks as replacements but of course the mag ride override is needed and they do not do the conversion. He sent me a set he wants me to try and compare with the stock z06 upgrade shocks. Pm me in a few weeks and I will tell you what I found out .
Ok I happen to be on hold about some vinatge shocks for a Porsche 917 in my shop with Bilstein and asked them to clear up this b6 and b8 choice. Its very simple b6 for the "base" corvettes are sprung lighter for regular driving. B8 are stiffer . Overall all the measurements and travel are the same. The difference is the internal valving. they have done quite a few xlrs . Thye only put the b8 o nthe car. they only off er thr b8 for the zo6 . he said ride and chassis flex etc are almost identical between the xlr and the z06. The stiffer rate vs the little extra weight on the xlr makes it a perfect match per his words. Where he said ian read incorrectly that the shocks lower the car is because they make b8 for tons of cars. Most except for the corvette are not shocks but struts with a spring perch . That perch is lower on the tube and thus will in fact lower the cars. Hondas, bmw and nissans are made that way. the corvette and xlr are not , so the shocks work with a lowered car or stock height car but do no lower the car.
I am thru with this thread. If someone is interested you know how to contact me direct and if you have questions I will answer them or direct you to the engineer at Bilstein to confirm what I stated. He said he would love to be able to recommend their shocks as replacements but of course the mag ride override is needed and they do not do the conversion. He sent me a set he wants me to try and compare with the stock z06 upgrade shocks. Pm me in a few weeks and I will tell you what I found out .
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IAN
Seasoned Member
Hi members
This post is for the XlR owners that anticipate to upgrade their present XLR mag shocks for the corvette c6 type ones.
Attached are documents from Bilstein that explains what are the B6 and te B8 shock made for.
The B6 is for sport shocks with a no lowered spring, and the same lenght as an OEM
The B8 is for sport shocks with a lower ride with the spring adjusted to fit the shorter B8 shocks.
Both have a smoth ride due to the gas filled Shocks at the lower section of these Mono tubing.
Make your choice.
IAN
This post is for the XlR owners that anticipate to upgrade their present XLR mag shocks for the corvette c6 type ones.
Attached are documents from Bilstein that explains what are the B6 and te B8 shock made for.
The B6 is for sport shocks with a no lowered spring, and the same lenght as an OEM
The B8 is for sport shocks with a lower ride with the spring adjusted to fit the shorter B8 shocks.
Both have a smoth ride due to the gas filled Shocks at the lower section of these Mono tubing.
Make your choice.
IAN
long Tall Sally
Seasoned Member
above information is not for the Corvette /XLR but for the German?Asian market. Cut and paste is not your friend when you do not know what you are reading. You need to correct the wrong information and if you want to continue to argue contact Bilstein and tell them they are wrong . I can tell anyone the b6 are really soft and the car will float . the b8 will give you the same ride you had when the car was new. Just installed the b6 on a car for a 75 year old and he did not like them . I swapped to the b8 and he said thats how the car was when new
[FONT="]Hello Michael,[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]As stated the B6 and B8 shocks for your Corvette/XLR are the same lengths front and rear. I have provided the extended and collapsed dimensions below for these shocks that you can share .. The difference between them is in the valving. I cannot share the valving info as it is proprietary. The Corvette/XLR uses a unique front and rear transverse leaf spring suspension which is different from the European cars that have strut style suspensions and need the longer B6(for stock springs) and shorter B8 (for lowering springs) shocks.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]John Trexler[/FONT]
[FONT="]Technical Sales and Warranty Support Expert[/FONT]
[FONT="]thyssenkrupp Bilstein of America, Inc[/FONT]
[FONT="]Hello Michael,[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]As stated the B6 and B8 shocks for your Corvette/XLR are the same lengths front and rear. I have provided the extended and collapsed dimensions below for these shocks that you can share .. The difference between them is in the valving. I cannot share the valving info as it is proprietary. The Corvette/XLR uses a unique front and rear transverse leaf spring suspension which is different from the European cars that have strut style suspensions and need the longer B6(for stock springs) and shorter B8 (for lowering springs) shocks.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[FONT="]
[FONT="]
[FONT="]
[FONT="]Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]John Trexler[/FONT]
[FONT="]Technical Sales and Warranty Support Expert[/FONT]
[FONT="]thyssenkrupp Bilstein of America, Inc[/FONT]
IAN
Seasoned Member
Post send at 2 different threads
Hi members.
My reply was made on the thread ''Xlr rear end hops and bounce'', strangely the ''sally'' post was send at both threads for the debate on differences for bilstein B6/B8shocks.
IAN
Hi members.
My reply was made on the thread ''Xlr rear end hops and bounce'', strangely the ''sally'' post was send at both threads for the debate on differences for bilstein B6/B8shocks.
IAN
IAN
Seasoned Member
KYB shochs installation.
Hi Members.
As previously mentioned the installation of the KYB shocks are on way to be completed.
I have just completed the driver side, the results is just fine, enclosed is a photos that shows the measurements taken before and after the installation.
The result is that the car is 1 inch higher than the mag shocks, the KYB shocks are longer, when I completed the installation I will send you the photos, so you can appreciate the differences.
Confined.....there is always someting to do on a xLR
IAN.
![8-caddy-xlr-front-2004-copy1[1] - Copie.jpg](https://www.xlr-net.com/forums/data/attachments/5/5344-923f1007a9e8fd5f4e55a028939be5e5.jpg?hash=kj8QB6no_V "8-caddy-xlr-front-2004-copy1[1] - Copie.jpg")
Hi Members.
As previously mentioned the installation of the KYB shocks are on way to be completed.
I have just completed the driver side, the results is just fine, enclosed is a photos that shows the measurements taken before and after the installation.
The result is that the car is 1 inch higher than the mag shocks, the KYB shocks are longer, when I completed the installation I will send you the photos, so you can appreciate the differences.
Confined.....there is always someting to do on a xLR
IAN.
IAN
Seasoned Member
Hi Members.
As previously mentioned the installation of the KYB shocks are on way to be completed.
I have just completed the driver side, the results is just fine, enclosed is a photos that shows the measurements taken before and after the installation.
The result is that the car is 1 inch higher than the mag shocks, the KYB shocks are longer, when I completed the installation I will send you the photos, so you can appreciate the differences.
Confined.....there is always someting to do on a xLR
IAN.
View attachment 9756
For the measurements it would have been better to be on a flat surface and the tires pressure verified, the mags shocks are shots (3) and it had no place with asphalt surfaces to do it.
In order to have a precise idea of the measurements the outside diameter was done for references only, however the measurements from the center of the wheel and the edge of the fender is excellent to get the real measurements.
The photo is showing the last week measurements before the changes and the second measurements yesterday.
My next post will be showing with photos the reality.....doesn't a photo worth a 1000 words.
IAN.
Gord
Seasoned Member
Hi Ian,
New shocks of whatever brand, will have no effect on the ride height - this is a fact sorry to say.
If you installed a different spring (or different springs a la 'coil overs'), yes, there would be a change.
The length of travel or the overall length of the shock absorber really only comes in to play if by example, it would be so long it would be holding up the car (bottomed out). Typically, the gas charge in any shock is just not enough to amount to enough to change ride height.
I would bet with a glove on, you can compress the shock by hand - try doing so with the shock on a bathroom scale and you can see approximately how many pounds force it is applying upwards. Then consider the position of the shock in the lower wishbone versus the actual leverage you gain at the center line of the wheel.
When compared to the spring's pressure, the gas pressure in the shock is simply too low to provide any significant change. Okay, versus a completely 'dead' shock, maybe a millimetre.
If your car is suddenly an inch higher, I would take it for a drive first to let things settle back in to position and measure again. I hope also that when you tighten any and all suspension components, the suspension is in a 'loaded' position. That's not so critical for the front shocks on the XLR due to their mount design, but for the rear, it could cause some issues with the lower mount / bushing.
HTH!
Gord
New shocks of whatever brand, will have no effect on the ride height - this is a fact sorry to say.
If you installed a different spring (or different springs a la 'coil overs'), yes, there would be a change.
The length of travel or the overall length of the shock absorber really only comes in to play if by example, it would be so long it would be holding up the car (bottomed out). Typically, the gas charge in any shock is just not enough to amount to enough to change ride height.
I would bet with a glove on, you can compress the shock by hand - try doing so with the shock on a bathroom scale and you can see approximately how many pounds force it is applying upwards. Then consider the position of the shock in the lower wishbone versus the actual leverage you gain at the center line of the wheel.
When compared to the spring's pressure, the gas pressure in the shock is simply too low to provide any significant change. Okay, versus a completely 'dead' shock, maybe a millimetre.
If your car is suddenly an inch higher, I would take it for a drive first to let things settle back in to position and measure again. I hope also that when you tighten any and all suspension components, the suspension is in a 'loaded' position. That's not so critical for the front shocks on the XLR due to their mount design, but for the rear, it could cause some issues with the lower mount / bushing.
HTH!
Gord
IAN
Seasoned Member
KYB fine shocks
Gord.
The sring rule is to give the height of a car, the rule of a shock is to damping the up/down load create by the springs.....we all agreed with this principe with the OEM regular shocks.
When you open a OEM car hood, the dampers help you to open the hood, a too short damper it will open with a less angle opening, with a longer damper it will give a wider opening angle.
The retractable top hydraulic system is mainly the one that actvate the opening of it, the dampers are helping and support the hydraulic system.
I have change my XLR shocks lately and I am getting ready to explain the why with photos, that my XLR is higher, the equivalent of the different longer KYB shocks with the OEM XLR mag. skocks.
Usely with the OEM shocks completely shoted the height drops and with new ones it comes back to its regular height. we also all know that.
Stay put for a debate.
If you see sally tell him...... Bonjour.
IAN
Gord.
The sring rule is to give the height of a car, the rule of a shock is to damping the up/down load create by the springs.....we all agreed with this principe with the OEM regular shocks.
When you open a OEM car hood, the dampers help you to open the hood, a too short damper it will open with a less angle opening, with a longer damper it will give a wider opening angle.
The retractable top hydraulic system is mainly the one that actvate the opening of it, the dampers are helping and support the hydraulic system.
I have change my XLR shocks lately and I am getting ready to explain the why with photos, that my XLR is higher, the equivalent of the different longer KYB shocks with the OEM XLR mag. skocks.
Usely with the OEM shocks completely shoted the height drops and with new ones it comes back to its regular height. we also all know that.
Stay put for a debate.
If you see sally tell him...... Bonjour.
IAN
Gord
Seasoned Member
Hi - Salut Ian,
Well, you're comparing apples and oranges when you mention hood and roof struts. For hoods, the design length of the 'gas pressure spring' assembly does determine the limit to which the hood opens, however this is not at all the same as you find in automotive suspension.
In automotive suspension, the shock absorber should never 'bottom-out' or 'top-out' (a la hood strut) and if a shock absorber does, it is most likely in an unnatural position. Example would be lifting the car with a jack so one wheel is off the ground: that shock may 'top-out' depending on the rest of that corner's suspension design. Perhaps you get the car airborne (unwise) for long enough and the suspension will 'top-out' as all the wheels fall away from the chassis.
Do that repeatedly and the odds are the shock or the mounts will break - it's not really a part of their design for a street car.
In the other direction, fully compress a suspension shock absorber and it will try to 'bottom-out' - in some cases successfully if there is no rubber bump-stop on the shock shaft - the bump stop is a 'last resort' component placed there to hopefully protect the shock and mounts from getting damaged due to impact.
So as soon as you let your car off the jack and put the weight back on the wheel, your shock absorber -should- be somewhere within the normal range of travel for the design of the shock. Summarize that, the shock is not holding the car up or down - it certainly shouldn't be by any means.
Bilstein seems to offer two assemblies that will work. If one has already lowered the car by means of the jack-screws between the lower wishbones and the spring, either shock would work (B6 or B8) however the additional travel available in the B6 would be quite pointless...not to mention they do state that the valving (the dampening curve) of the B8 (the shorter of the two) has been set more for sport rather than comfort. This makes sense if you think that someone who lowers a car intentionally, is most likely trying to achieve a 'tighter' feeling car with much more direct handling input.
Let's go back to hood or roof 'gas pressure springs' for a second. I vaguely recall testing one of the used trunk struts when I changed them not long ago: it was around 150 pounds to make it start to move - and it was used and not behaving very effectively. Times that by two for the trunk and it's a substantial force working to assist the opening of the trunk.
I have a complete set of new mag-shocks sitting on the bench in my shop and tomorrow (later today), I'll see what sort of gas pressure they have but I'll take a guess right now that it will be less than say, 30 pounds. That pressure upwards and the angle and mounting position of the shock means the effect on the ride height has to be close to nil.
Really, if you still have a shock out and you do have a bathroom scale you could use, give it a try and see what sort of pressure you have in your KYB brand. It would be interesting to know for sure.
Gord
p.s. What are the dimensions of the KYB shocks if you have them please?
Well, you're comparing apples and oranges when you mention hood and roof struts. For hoods, the design length of the 'gas pressure spring' assembly does determine the limit to which the hood opens, however this is not at all the same as you find in automotive suspension.
In automotive suspension, the shock absorber should never 'bottom-out' or 'top-out' (a la hood strut) and if a shock absorber does, it is most likely in an unnatural position. Example would be lifting the car with a jack so one wheel is off the ground: that shock may 'top-out' depending on the rest of that corner's suspension design. Perhaps you get the car airborne (unwise) for long enough and the suspension will 'top-out' as all the wheels fall away from the chassis.
Do that repeatedly and the odds are the shock or the mounts will break - it's not really a part of their design for a street car.
In the other direction, fully compress a suspension shock absorber and it will try to 'bottom-out' - in some cases successfully if there is no rubber bump-stop on the shock shaft - the bump stop is a 'last resort' component placed there to hopefully protect the shock and mounts from getting damaged due to impact.
So as soon as you let your car off the jack and put the weight back on the wheel, your shock absorber -should- be somewhere within the normal range of travel for the design of the shock. Summarize that, the shock is not holding the car up or down - it certainly shouldn't be by any means.
Bilstein seems to offer two assemblies that will work. If one has already lowered the car by means of the jack-screws between the lower wishbones and the spring, either shock would work (B6 or B8) however the additional travel available in the B6 would be quite pointless...not to mention they do state that the valving (the dampening curve) of the B8 (the shorter of the two) has been set more for sport rather than comfort. This makes sense if you think that someone who lowers a car intentionally, is most likely trying to achieve a 'tighter' feeling car with much more direct handling input.
Let's go back to hood or roof 'gas pressure springs' for a second. I vaguely recall testing one of the used trunk struts when I changed them not long ago: it was around 150 pounds to make it start to move - and it was used and not behaving very effectively. Times that by two for the trunk and it's a substantial force working to assist the opening of the trunk.
I have a complete set of new mag-shocks sitting on the bench in my shop and tomorrow (later today), I'll see what sort of gas pressure they have but I'll take a guess right now that it will be less than say, 30 pounds. That pressure upwards and the angle and mounting position of the shock means the effect on the ride height has to be close to nil.
Really, if you still have a shock out and you do have a bathroom scale you could use, give it a try and see what sort of pressure you have in your KYB brand. It would be interesting to know for sure.
Gord
p.s. What are the dimensions of the KYB shocks if you have them please?
mickeytee
Seasoned Member
one of my techs laughed so hard after reading this guys post, he almost fell in the floor.
He emailed the company and sent them a copy here is their email back.
Hello.
Our shocks will be identical in length to the OEM Corvette shocks. Using them should not affect ride height on this vehicle.
Typically, just changing the shocks will not affect the ride height. Since shocks are installed with the vehicle raised, it is normal for the car to look like it is sitting higher when set on the ground because the wheels are out of position and the shocks need to settle in place. After driving on them a little bit, the ride height should come down to a normal appearance.
However, you have to keep in mind that these units were designed for the Corvette, and for the "standard" suspension setup. The XLR with its hardtop convertible setup is a little heavier and the magnetic shock setup is a little different from the standard suspension of the Corvette, so there will be some differences in performance . We don’t list these shocks as fitting in this setup for these reasons and haven’t tested them this way, so we can’t say for sure if there will be other negative effects of using the shocks. They are not recommended
Regards,
Technical Support
KYB Americas Corporation
techsupport@kyb.com
The tech sheet shows the only available corvette shock 555-604 and 555-609 as being "direct fit" .
but of course this poster has already said he does not agree with Bilstein who said the exact same thing in an email to another member and clearly showed both their B6 and B8 as the same shocks other than valving but Ian disagrees. I did the Bilsteins and the car is the exact same height as before the change,
He has something in his mind and is wrong as anyone who has ever worked on cars knows.
He also tried to post a photo of a car showing the Bilstein's were short. That photo is BS as when you kook at the original the guy was removing shocks from a c5 corvette and showing in the photo that the shock had to be pried up to get it off the lower mount. Anyone replacing shocks knows that they have to be collapsed and usually zip tied to hold them collapsed to even get them in the car. . His photo of the car measured in the dirt? thats totally stupid. You have to measure the car on level ground at all 4 corners to check height with the front tires straight, his photo has the wheel turned in . That induces caster which raises the suspension on the car. Why do you list you own an 04 car but show a photo of an 09? The car in the photo is either an 09 or you went to the expense of changing to a v hood, a 09 fender, an 09 headlight, an 09 front bumper and 09 wheels. Plus the car is painted 09 radiant silver. If you did all this expensive work on your 04 why would you buy the cheapest oem spec replacement shock made? there are many upgrade shocks plus the mag ride are available. If you now own an 09 the nwhy would you cheap out on the non mag shocks? yep photos worth a 1000 words and all of yours are totally biased. You can go on and rant and post but if anyone thinks this guy has a clue I have some Iowa ocean front property really cheap.
.this is a photo of another 09 and you can see the clearance above the tire is very close to the one he shows in the dirt.
this photo the guy showed to try and say the Bilstein shocks are too short and will lower the car. Bull crap.
here is the photo not cropped showing the shock under pressure and being pried up to get over the lower control arm.
As for me I know what shocks do. If this guy wants to try and make people believe they change the ride height on the XLR he can just go on and on. I have better things to do but it did make all the guys in the shop have a big laugh. Oh and the shop in Atlanta that installed my shocks does wheel work, alignments, stereo and exhaust work on cars that some of the exhaust systems alone cost more than the average used XLR.
He emailed the company and sent them a copy here is their email back.
Hello.
Our shocks will be identical in length to the OEM Corvette shocks. Using them should not affect ride height on this vehicle.
Typically, just changing the shocks will not affect the ride height. Since shocks are installed with the vehicle raised, it is normal for the car to look like it is sitting higher when set on the ground because the wheels are out of position and the shocks need to settle in place. After driving on them a little bit, the ride height should come down to a normal appearance.
However, you have to keep in mind that these units were designed for the Corvette, and for the "standard" suspension setup. The XLR with its hardtop convertible setup is a little heavier and the magnetic shock setup is a little different from the standard suspension of the Corvette, so there will be some differences in performance . We don’t list these shocks as fitting in this setup for these reasons and haven’t tested them this way, so we can’t say for sure if there will be other negative effects of using the shocks. They are not recommended
Regards,
Technical Support
KYB Americas Corporation
techsupport@kyb.com
The tech sheet shows the only available corvette shock 555-604 and 555-609 as being "direct fit" .
but of course this poster has already said he does not agree with Bilstein who said the exact same thing in an email to another member and clearly showed both their B6 and B8 as the same shocks other than valving but Ian disagrees. I did the Bilsteins and the car is the exact same height as before the change,
He has something in his mind and is wrong as anyone who has ever worked on cars knows.
He also tried to post a photo of a car showing the Bilstein's were short. That photo is BS as when you kook at the original the guy was removing shocks from a c5 corvette and showing in the photo that the shock had to be pried up to get it off the lower mount. Anyone replacing shocks knows that they have to be collapsed and usually zip tied to hold them collapsed to even get them in the car. . His photo of the car measured in the dirt? thats totally stupid. You have to measure the car on level ground at all 4 corners to check height with the front tires straight, his photo has the wheel turned in . That induces caster which raises the suspension on the car. Why do you list you own an 04 car but show a photo of an 09? The car in the photo is either an 09 or you went to the expense of changing to a v hood, a 09 fender, an 09 headlight, an 09 front bumper and 09 wheels. Plus the car is painted 09 radiant silver. If you did all this expensive work on your 04 why would you buy the cheapest oem spec replacement shock made? there are many upgrade shocks plus the mag ride are available. If you now own an 09 the nwhy would you cheap out on the non mag shocks? yep photos worth a 1000 words and all of yours are totally biased. You can go on and rant and post but if anyone thinks this guy has a clue I have some Iowa ocean front property really cheap.
.this is a photo of another 09 and you can see the clearance above the tire is very close to the one he shows in the dirt.this photo the guy showed to try and say the Bilstein shocks are too short and will lower the car. Bull crap.here is the photo not cropped showing the shock under pressure and being pried up to get over the lower control arm.As for me I know what shocks do. If this guy wants to try and make people believe they change the ride height on the XLR he can just go on and on. I have better things to do but it did make all the guys in the shop have a big laugh. Oh and the shop in Atlanta that installed my shocks does wheel work, alignments, stereo and exhaust work on cars that some of the exhaust systems alone cost more than the average used XLR.
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IAN
Seasoned Member
Hi Sally
Find attached photos of my XLR that the measurements were taken today after a drive of a half of an hour.
To the members I will explain the installation of KYB shocks on my XLR and the whys for the differences.
KYB is correct about that their shocks are for the c6 corvette and they would not recommaded on the XLR as the dont know perhaps that both cars are using the same suspension components.
They are correct when they says that the XLR is heavier then the c6 corvette contrary to your affirmation previously.
KYB are known for their soft ride like OEM and that is correct as I have made the test today, what ever you says most of the time is a mix of reality and fiction, my photos are showing the reality, what ever you do or says the present measurements are what it is.
WHALA/(voilà )
ps. it is not fair to use an other nick name to debate of the same issue.
IAN
Find attached photos of my XLR that the measurements were taken today after a drive of a half of an hour.
To the members I will explain the installation of KYB shocks on my XLR and the whys for the differences.
KYB is correct about that their shocks are for the c6 corvette and they would not recommaded on the XLR as the dont know perhaps that both cars are using the same suspension components.
They are correct when they says that the XLR is heavier then the c6 corvette contrary to your affirmation previously.
KYB are known for their soft ride like OEM and that is correct as I have made the test today, what ever you says most of the time is a mix of reality and fiction, my photos are showing the reality, what ever you do or says the present measurements are what it is.
WHALA/(voilà )
ps. it is not fair to use an other nick name to debate of the same issue.
IAN
Gord
Seasoned Member
Shocking news
Hi Ian,
Today I load tested the mag-shocks I have here. Brand new, not yet installed.
*Very* much to my surprise, in order to get the shaft to begin to move, required a pressure of about -85- pounds. All 4 shocks tested and very consistent at or near that amount.
With that much pressure upwards, I would have to say that changing from 'dead' mag-shocks to new ones, would have to have some effect on the ride height! I don't believe it could possibly be an inch - that just seems too much if we do some very casual basic math:
Say the corner weight of each corner is equal at (how convenient) 850 pounds. The spring(s) are holding the car level with no shocks installed (or completely dead mag shocks). Now add the 4 new shocks, each containing a force upwards when loaded of at least 85 pounds. That's a 10% increase over our convenient corner weight if the shocks were straight up and down. They're not - I'd guess the angle at what, 60 degrees off horizontal or so? That angle is going to reduce the vertical force by an amount (I've forgotten all this physics stuff)... but let's say 65 pounds is now the vertical vector.
In any case, if the KYB shocks had a similar gas pressure to the new mag shocks (would have been so neat to know), there would have to be an increase in the ride height. 65 pounds x the 4 corners, suddenly adds up to something that's certainly more than inconsequential and at less than 10% of our convenient corner weight, well, why don't we guess at less than 10% of the normal travel of the shock, give or take.
I don't suppose you're on good terms with whomever sold you the KYB shocks - maybe they could give some others a pressure test? I ask that because I figure you don't feel like removing a shock or two just for the experiment.
Gord
Hi Ian,
Today I load tested the mag-shocks I have here. Brand new, not yet installed.
*Very* much to my surprise, in order to get the shaft to begin to move, required a pressure of about -85- pounds. All 4 shocks tested and very consistent at or near that amount.
With that much pressure upwards, I would have to say that changing from 'dead' mag-shocks to new ones, would have to have some effect on the ride height! I don't believe it could possibly be an inch - that just seems too much if we do some very casual basic math:
Say the corner weight of each corner is equal at (how convenient) 850 pounds. The spring(s) are holding the car level with no shocks installed (or completely dead mag shocks). Now add the 4 new shocks, each containing a force upwards when loaded of at least 85 pounds. That's a 10% increase over our convenient corner weight if the shocks were straight up and down. They're not - I'd guess the angle at what, 60 degrees off horizontal or so? That angle is going to reduce the vertical force by an amount (I've forgotten all this physics stuff)... but let's say 65 pounds is now the vertical vector.
In any case, if the KYB shocks had a similar gas pressure to the new mag shocks (would have been so neat to know), there would have to be an increase in the ride height. 65 pounds x the 4 corners, suddenly adds up to something that's certainly more than inconsequential and at less than 10% of our convenient corner weight, well, why don't we guess at less than 10% of the normal travel of the shock, give or take.
I don't suppose you're on good terms with whomever sold you the KYB shocks - maybe they could give some others a pressure test? I ask that because I figure you don't feel like removing a shock or two just for the experiment.
Gord
IAN
Seasoned Member
Debating yes, confrontation no thanks.
Gord.
Your exposé is correct, however the KYB shock monotube it self is longer of one inche, for the front and rear shocks.
The KYB front chocks has a thicker lower body tower bushing of 3/8 of an inche, the rear chocks also are longer of an inche, its lower attachement U brackets is also 3/8 of an inche longer.Both product have the same load pressure of 80 pounds +/-.
My next thread will be for the members showing them the installation of the KYB chocks and the diffrences.
The photos sent previously to a so call member, demonstrate the reality and I ham please of the ride and the results.
As for, the chocks or a strut they are dampers, either on gas or oil or both of them, the inside gas chock components is the builder secret for their valving, the pistons and gas/oil that produce the ride and the choice of the consumers needs.
Enclosed is a note made by bilstein of UK that explain what is a B6 and a B8 shock and others product, the B8 is a shorter chock that the suspension must be tune for it, on the XLR/C6 the suspension can be adjusted without changing the spring that is correct, not doing so it could also fit, however that will not as per the OEM specification.....i would never get my car repair at a such repair shop.
KYB is a fine shock maker for all japan and america and europe cars and SUV, after reading about it i know now that they are better then the bilstein for the ride and the chocks are basically good for 5 year, the bilstein has a bit less results for the ride, their customers are mostly SUV and light sporty truck, if the chocks are well maintained they could last longer.
Your a gentleman.
IAN
Gord.
Your exposé is correct, however the KYB shock monotube it self is longer of one inche, for the front and rear shocks.
The KYB front chocks has a thicker lower body tower bushing of 3/8 of an inche, the rear chocks also are longer of an inche, its lower attachement U brackets is also 3/8 of an inche longer.Both product have the same load pressure of 80 pounds +/-.
My next thread will be for the members showing them the installation of the KYB chocks and the diffrences.
The photos sent previously to a so call member, demonstrate the reality and I ham please of the ride and the results.
As for, the chocks or a strut they are dampers, either on gas or oil or both of them, the inside gas chock components is the builder secret for their valving, the pistons and gas/oil that produce the ride and the choice of the consumers needs.
Enclosed is a note made by bilstein of UK that explain what is a B6 and a B8 shock and others product, the B8 is a shorter chock that the suspension must be tune for it, on the XLR/C6 the suspension can be adjusted without changing the spring that is correct, not doing so it could also fit, however that will not as per the OEM specification.....i would never get my car repair at a such repair shop.
KYB is a fine shock maker for all japan and america and europe cars and SUV, after reading about it i know now that they are better then the bilstein for the ride and the chocks are basically good for 5 year, the bilstein has a bit less results for the ride, their customers are mostly SUV and light sporty truck, if the chocks are well maintained they could last longer.
Your a gentleman.
IAN
IAN
Seasoned Member
Installation of new KYB shocks
Hi members.
Now here is the installation of the KYB shocks for the DIY or a well handy member.
The first photo as a guide is showing the available space for taken off the top nut of the body tower, the solenoid has to be removed first, by pressing away the lock tab
No necessary air gun is needed an open key is fine.
Then at the lower control A arm 2 bolts are to be removed with an open key and an appropriated size ratchet/socket.
Note that the attacments are alike for the XLR/c5/c6
As you can appreciate it is not that hard yet, the old ruined shock can be moved off the control arm with a crowbar that give streng for moving out the old shock.
Since it dampering is very weak the unit should come out easely and push it on the side of the control arm.
A jack underneath the ball joint could help in lifting the contrpl arms in order to give more spaces to move out the shock.
The next step is to remove the old tower bushing and replace it with the longer one supply with the new KYB shock, The lower washer has to be cleaned and filled in order that it will move freely on the stem.
The new KYB shock needs to be compressed, with a rope all ready with the proper lengt and install on the shocks will get the damper to be shorter of 3/5 inches, depending how handyman you are, the pressure is about 80 pounds for compressing the shock, ounce it is done then it would be easier to introduce it in its place betwen the 2 control arms.
Then the washer has to be put on the stem in place the proper way for the tower bushing shape, also in place on shock stem, then the rope as to be removed.
Take your time, and with the help of the jack you can lift or down it for getting the shocks properly in the body tower and the lower control arm, its a matter of how handyman you are.
The KYB shock ( for the c6 corvette ) is longer and its lower tower bushing is also longer, on my car the result shows an impressive improvement.
Next thread will be the rear shocks installations.
Wawla.
IAN
Hi members.
Now here is the installation of the KYB shocks for the DIY or a well handy member.
The first photo as a guide is showing the available space for taken off the top nut of the body tower, the solenoid has to be removed first, by pressing away the lock tab
No necessary air gun is needed an open key is fine.
Then at the lower control A arm 2 bolts are to be removed with an open key and an appropriated size ratchet/socket.
Note that the attacments are alike for the XLR/c5/c6
As you can appreciate it is not that hard yet, the old ruined shock can be moved off the control arm with a crowbar that give streng for moving out the old shock.
Since it dampering is very weak the unit should come out easely and push it on the side of the control arm.
A jack underneath the ball joint could help in lifting the contrpl arms in order to give more spaces to move out the shock.
The next step is to remove the old tower bushing and replace it with the longer one supply with the new KYB shock, The lower washer has to be cleaned and filled in order that it will move freely on the stem.
The new KYB shock needs to be compressed, with a rope all ready with the proper lengt and install on the shocks will get the damper to be shorter of 3/5 inches, depending how handyman you are, the pressure is about 80 pounds for compressing the shock, ounce it is done then it would be easier to introduce it in its place betwen the 2 control arms.
Then the washer has to be put on the stem in place the proper way for the tower bushing shape, also in place on shock stem, then the rope as to be removed.
Take your time, and with the help of the jack you can lift or down it for getting the shocks properly in the body tower and the lower control arm, its a matter of how handyman you are.
The KYB shock ( for the c6 corvette ) is longer and its lower tower bushing is also longer, on my car the result shows an impressive improvement.
Next thread will be the rear shocks installations.
Wawla.
IAN
Last edited:
IAN
Seasoned Member
KYB new Shocks installation
NOW the rear shocks.
After jacking the car at the subframe and at the appropriate place with a stand, and for an additional safety measure with an other stand on the frame,
Then with a jack under the control arm ball joint, so it can de use for extra safety and a tool for creating room for the removing/installation of the shocks.
With a ratchet and a long extension remove the 2 upper bolts that secure the old damper.,
Next at the lower control arm remove the large bolt with a bigger ratchet and the appropiate socket sise, with an open key at the other side to keep it of not turning.
To unscrew it could be very hard, then change the large ratchet of side and use a tubing piece to give more strenght ( if necessary ) and to remove the bolt, use the jack for helping you in getting the suspension up or down.
Removing the old shock use a crowbar and move it on the side ( it should be easier then the front one.
This photo shows the OEM shock and its U braket of it, a longer KYB shock the openings would almost in line for the installation, a shorter damper the braket opening would be higher.
Again the jack would be a good tool for the installation/removing of the shocks.
For the installation you have understude to do it the other way....compress the rear shocks like the same front shocks procedure, for an easier fitting of them in place.
The next photo is showing the OEM Mag.shocks and the new KYB one, as you can see the lengt of the mono tubes are longer, also the U braket is also longer, this could change the height of your XLR.
If you are a fan of a low rider these shocks are not as per your need, then make an other choice, my choice is mostly a OEM ride with additional sport handling for me that it is what I realy want and that is what KYB offers.
Now.... time will tell,l do i really like them or not, presently I am please of the ride.
Here is the new damper installed with its modules for neutralizing the suspension module messages.
Now the next photos is the result, thanks KYB my XLR will no longer hit my driveway.
The next thread will be for the modules installation.
IAN
NOW the rear shocks.
After jacking the car at the subframe and at the appropriate place with a stand, and for an additional safety measure with an other stand on the frame,
Then with a jack under the control arm ball joint, so it can de use for extra safety and a tool for creating room for the removing/installation of the shocks.
With a ratchet and a long extension remove the 2 upper bolts that secure the old damper.,
Next at the lower control arm remove the large bolt with a bigger ratchet and the appropiate socket sise, with an open key at the other side to keep it of not turning.
To unscrew it could be very hard, then change the large ratchet of side and use a tubing piece to give more strenght ( if necessary ) and to remove the bolt, use the jack for helping you in getting the suspension up or down.
Removing the old shock use a crowbar and move it on the side ( it should be easier then the front one.
This photo shows the OEM shock and its U braket of it, a longer KYB shock the openings would almost in line for the installation, a shorter damper the braket opening would be higher.
Again the jack would be a good tool for the installation/removing of the shocks.
For the installation you have understude to do it the other way....compress the rear shocks like the same front shocks procedure, for an easier fitting of them in place.
The next photo is showing the OEM Mag.shocks and the new KYB one, as you can see the lengt of the mono tubes are longer, also the U braket is also longer, this could change the height of your XLR.
If you are a fan of a low rider these shocks are not as per your need, then make an other choice, my choice is mostly a OEM ride with additional sport handling for me that it is what I realy want and that is what KYB offers.
Now.... time will tell,l do i really like them or not, presently I am please of the ride.
Here is the new damper installed with its modules for neutralizing the suspension module messages.
Now the next photos is the result, thanks KYB my XLR will no longer hit my driveway.
The next thread will be for the modules installation.
IAN
Last edited:
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