Tight Steering Knuckles/Ball Joints

[RubyRod]

I just had my Steering Rack & associated hoses replaced. The previous owner of the car had the Power Steering Pump replaced less than 1000 miles ago so the entire steering system is now all new (rebuilt Rack). During the Rack replacement process the mechanics/technicians that worked on the car tell me that the Steering Knuckles seem "tight" on the car. They tested the Knuckles with the Tie Rod Ends disconnected. They claim that the Ball Joints aren't failing, that they show no play. The shop that did the work specializes in late model corvettes so they seem to know their way around most of the car pretty well.


Does anyone have any experience with this? The car seems to drive & steer OK. The steering effort is no different after the Rack replacement than before. The thing that is puzzling though is that I expected the steering to be VERY light at parking lot speeds but it isn't. Neither before nor after the Rack replacement. The steering effort seems the same no matter what speed the car is traveling. It doesn't seem to be a problem but the fact that the steering doesn't seem overly light at parking lot speeds seems wrong.

Thanks.

 

[mickeytee]

Ive not found anyone that can rebuild the racks but one guy and he gets 1500$ to do them. People that claim to rebuild them put a couple sesls and a tie rod on them and say done. The problem thst goes bad is the electronic part and it allows oil to get into the elevtronics so the electric power assist does not work.the guy in sc does them for the vettes andbis well knkwn that he know what he is doing. He explained it to me why all the ebay and rock auto shops are not really rebuilding them. You shoukd feel the power assist and low speeds. Very light . your shop should be able to activate it with a tech 2 or maybe another scanner .Sounds like the input signal from either the speed sendkr or the rack is not working

 

[justdennis]

Like Mickeytee said it could be electrical. I searched code C0450 and it talks about a possible open, short to ground or short to voltage in the VES actuator or the circuits to the actuator. I also goggled the problem and one guy said he pulled the left front tire and found the wiring harness broke and barely connected to the VES. I am trying to find something in my Tech 2 that would allow you to test anything on the steering system but haven't found it yet, if anyone knows how to do this let me know, I'll keep looking. Good luck, let us know what you find.

 

[RubyRod]

Ive not found anyone that can rebuild the racks but one guy and he gets 1500$ to do them. People that claim to rebuild them put a couple sesls and a tie rod on them and say done. The problem thst goes bad is the electronic part and it allows oil to get into the elevtronics so the electric power assist does not work.the guy in sc does them for the vettes andbis well knkwn that he know what he is doing. He explained it to me why all the ebay and rock auto shops are not really rebuilding them. You shoukd feel the power assist and low speeds. Very light . your shop should be able to activate it with a tech 2 or maybe another scanner .Sounds like the input signal from either the speed sendkr or the rack is not working

The rebuilder was a major issue when shopping for a rebuilt unit. I'll see if I can find out who the rebuilder was. There weren't a lot of high quality options. I wasn't sure who to source a rebuilt unit from but I was sure I didn't want it sourced from Cardone.

In any event, the shop claimed that they followed the GM test procedure for the Electronics/ABS module that is part of the Steering System test and found it operated A-OK. The problem was contaminated fluid and a leak in the steering rack. The leak, according to the tech that evaluated the car, was at the point where the steering shaft connects to the electric motor. The C0450 code hasn't returned (yet). I've only driven it twice since the rack was installed.

The comment about the "tight" steering knuckles/ball joints was with the tie rod ends separated from the knuckles. The only thing allowing (or preventing) motion at this point was the ball joints. The effort to move the knuckles was similar on both sides and since these guys specialize in late model 'vettes they know what the effort should be in the C5 & C6 cars. The claim is that the XLR suspension is the same as the C6 'vette. I'm not sure if the parts are identical but the architecture is.

Since the steering effort doesn't feel any different at low speeds than at high speeds, and it doesn't feel any different after the replacement, I'm concerned that the Ball Joints may need replacing from excessive friction. D$%@! And the Ball Joints don't have grease fittings so I can't just grease them. Double D$%@! I'd hate to kill the "new" Power Steering Pump & Rack due to suspect Ball Joints.

Thanks, Mickey

 

[mickeytee]

Never seen ball jionts tightnen up from wear. They get loose . with the tie rod disconnected the whiole assembly shoukd turn very easy. When new it takes just a tiny bit of effort . all the suspension a atms etc are the same as the corvette. Available new and not stupidly expensive. If the ps pump failed internally and the system was not flushed and a proper filter installed that bad metal can get all into the system. It can block the strainer in the rack. Ive not got into the racks as i only replaced a couple with good used.i have no confidence in anyone rebuilding one properly as tbe electronics go bad and no one has them. The test procedure on the power steering is 15 pages in the gm manual and require about 5000$ worth or gauges and test tools. Im sure theres a wzy around it but i saw a tech use the tech 2 to move the steering and test the low speed assist.

 

[justdennis]

I have a 2007 XLR V and I can't find anything on the tech2 for testing the steering but when I go to diagnostics and enter my car as a 2004, 5 or 6 I get different options and one is steering. When I click on that I get two options, variable effort steering and steering wheel and column. Click on VES and then I get four options, DTC, data display, special functions and snapshot. Click on special functions and I get one option, EBCM. Click on that and I get one option, Steering position sensor test, then it tells me to put the car in park, start engine and turn the steering wheel to left lock. That's as far as I got because I was in the by-pass mode not connected to my car. I'm not sure why I can't get those options for 2007 and newer, maybe I don't have the latest software. I may want to pose that question to the forum, any thoughts?

Rick, I'm not sure what we will find but I can stop out and give it a try if you like. We haven't broke anything yet.

 

[RubyRod]

Never seen ball jionts tightnen up from wear. They get loose . with the tie rod disconnected the whiole assembly shoukd turn very easy. When new it takes just a tiny bit of effort . all the suspension a atms etc are the same as the corvette. Available new and not stupidly expensive. If the ps pump failed internally and the system was not flushed and a proper filter installed that bad metal can get all into the system. It can block the strainer in the rack. Ive not got into the racks as i only replaced a couple with good used.i have no confidence in anyone rebuilding one properly as tbe electronics go bad and no one has them. The test procedure on the power steering is 15 pages in the gm manual and require about 5000$ worth or gauges and test tools. Im sure theres a wzy around it but i saw a tech use the tech 2 to move the steering and test the low speed assist.

Mickey,

I've never seen Ball Joints tighten either. The guys at the shop that replaced the rack are VERY familiar with the 'vettes. They claim it's the same front suspension as the C6. They also claimed that it should move a lot easier than it did w/ the rack disconnected. They didn't have an answer.

I asked them to flush the pump BEFORE replacing the rack & the new hoses & reservoir. I am assuming they did that but without a video of the repair I'll never know for sure. In any event it shouldn't make any difference to the Ball Joints since the rack was separated from the knuckle when they checked this movement. Just searching for ideas.

They also claim that there is a way to lube the Ball Joints in place using some sort of needle system. Before replacing the Ball Joints it might be worth a shot. Stay tuned.

 

[RubyRod]

I have a 2007 XLR V and I can't find anything on the tech2 for testing the steering but when I go to diagnostics and enter my car as a 2004, 5 or 6 I get different options and one is steering. When I click on that I get two options, variable effort steering and steering wheel and column. Click on VES and then I get four options, DTC, data display, special functions and snapshot. Click on special functions and I get one option, EBCM. Click on that and I get one option, Steering position sensor test, then it tells me to put the car in park, start engine and turn the steering wheel to left lock. That's as far as I got because I was in the by-pass mode not connected to my car. I'm not sure why I can't get those options for 2007 and newer, maybe I don't have the latest software. I may want to pose that question to the forum, any thoughts?

Rick, I'm not sure what we will find but I can stop out and give it a try if you like. We haven't broke anything yet.

I'm game to try it if you are. So far the C0450 DTC hasn't come back so I'm not sure how valuable testing things will be. But, ya never know.

My shop manual claims that testing the Steering Electric Motor requires measuring the current between the EBCM Module & the Steering Rack. Not an easy test to perform & not one I'm eager to try. Requires an Ammeter & diagnostic test leads in the proximity of the cooling fan & the serpentine belts. I watched one of the owners of the shop that replaced the Steering Rack test some electronics on another car while I was discussing issues with my car. He had plenty of meters & test leads so I'm sure that if the procedure they followed called for testing the current between the EBCM & the Electric Motor I'm sure they did. They've also showed me the scanner they used while it was connected to the car and operating. It's quite an impressive device and is more than capable of performing whatever testing is necessary on any part of the car. Be nice to have one but the cost is insane. It also requires a subscription service.

 

[mickeytee]

You can put a little lube in the boot of the ball joints but it usually does not get to thevactual interference area. Ive seen impressive and expensive snap on modusvand other scanners. We use them. None of them do what thebold tech 2 does on our cars. In fact ive had them try and relearn the top and not be able do. They are great for live action engine and transmission work but not impressive to me on the functions i work on.

 

[RubyRod]

You can put a little lube in the boot of the ball joints but it usually does not get to thevactual interference area. Ive seen impressive and expensive snap on modusvand other scanners. We use them. None of them do what thebold tech 2 does on our cars. In fact ive had them try and relearn the top and not be able do. They are great for live action engine and transmission work but not impressive to me on the functions i work on.

Good to know. JustDennis lives nearby and has been generous with his time & his Tech2. He's stopped by several times and scanned the car for me. We've tried to do some more exotic things with the Tech2 but haven't figured out how to do them. In time we may figure out a little more.

 

[mickeytee]

Tell nim to call me. I might have already done it and can share

 

[RubyRod]

Tell nim to call me. I might have already done it and can share

Will do. Thanks